102598-wildstar-so-far
Content ---- Come back in October and ask that, if they haven't figured some things out by then there'll be a more definite answer. It's a volatile time atm, so if you're looking for smoothness, come back in I'd say October.Either things will be better, or so bad you'll easily have an answer. | |} ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- F2P won't happen. According to the developers if the game was dying it would just be closed. And trust me I'm happy that I didn't miss out on this one. It's most definitely an experience :) | |} ---- ---- ---- Why would you ask the question if you already have your mind set on an answer? Don't make a thread asking for advise on a topic you already are set on. | |} ---- Admit it, you started this thread just get a free to play dig in didn't you.... No likely to happen. Devs said something along the lines of it shutting down before that happens. Also, NCsoft, they like shutting things down ... I think it gives them the horn. | |} ---- ---- ---- Come on, you're telling me you haven't popped on your hoverboard and tried to re-enact scenes from Back to the Future? | |} ---- I could definitely picture WS working better as f2p rather than p2p... just my honest opinion. :ph34r: If only we could grab the back-end of a Taxi and zip all around the planet while on our hoverboard... that might be a little too "hardcore" I guess. :D | |} ---- Do you have a source for this? | |} ---- My imagination where Tony Rey and Cougar wear Aurin Ears and dance to caramelldansen on the next wildstar weekly twitch podcast thing. | |} ---- ---- Ahahahahaah serves you right, filthy Dominion! Us Exiles in our far superior city THAYD just run like 10 meters between AH/CX, bank, and crafting. You simply made the wrong choice, buddy. Live with it. B) | |} ---- The developers don't have final say on that, NCSoft does. | |} ---- Please point me to the part in their business contract where it says that..... ...oh wait. Not saying you're wrong, but you honestly have no idea. | |} ---- ---- ---- ---- Actually, that's part of being a publisher for someone. You put the money forward, you get to call the shots. NCSoft has let carbine make most of their own decisions, but that's, as stated, because NCSoft is letting them. At any point NCSoft could turn around and say, "Yeah, no. You guys had your chance and we don't like where it ended up, we're going to micromanage you now" and they would be completely within their rights, legally and morally. | |} ---- ---- You really need to stop with this. CoH came out a decade ago. They didn't kill it in its infancy. | |} ---- Just ask Wildhammer! | |} ---- (I'm getting more entertainment from you guys on the forums than from the game itself) | |} ---- Honestly... sometimes I do too haha. I'm here right now aren't I? | |} ---- As I told my clan in the last game I played, the forums are the true endgame. RIP Warhammer and my Blackguard Ork. | |} ---- That wasn't the question though. The question was "will they kill Wildstar before going F2P?". And the answer to that is in the contract. If Carbine aren't legally obliged to work on the game, they can just quit. You think NCsoft would hire an entire replacement team just to get their F2P intentions enforced? Of course another question is if Carbine would have the integrity (?) to stick to their decision and potentially go unemployed. | |} ---- Alright then. The answer is that yes, they could get themselves blacklisted in the industry by walking out on their employment and leaving an IP to die after it was funded by someone else, and it would die as a result of the entire team leaving, but, BUT, the entity of carbine wouldn't survive in its present form if that happened. That would be a massive black mark on their record if any other publisher looked at them to do work. Basically career suicide unless NCSoft ordered exactly that to happen. | |} ---- As outspoken as they were about the whole thing, I honestly don't see the moral/business issue here. NCsoft knew their opinion on F2P. If they wanted to force them to go against their explicitly stated wishes after presumably agreeing to them before funding Wildstar, that would hardly be cause for a "black mark" if one looks at it fairly. But hey, it's all just speculation. As I already stated from the start. I just wish people would stop treating their own assumptions as facts in general. | |} ---- I have people tell me they don't want to work weekends, or that they're going on vacation for x week of the month. When a project is on the table, do you think I really care what they want? They'll do what they're paid to do if they like having jobs. | |} ---- Slaves did what they were told to do if they wanted to eat. I'm pretty sure we abolished that line of thinking a long time ago. | |} ---- If you have the freedom to walk out on your job at any given moment, then great, more power to you. Most people don't have that option due to their obligations and responsibilities. | |} ---- Not really a comparable situation, but I don't think this side-debate is going anywhere further, since its very premise was speculation, and we are now speculating about speculation via analogies. Just this much: In most civilized countries, you can sue if your employer doesn't grant previously agreed on vacations. | |} ---- Doesn't mean their situation should be taken advantage of, or forcing them to feel grateful. | |} ---- I wasn't using analogies, but I suppose this is a bit off on a tangent. Also, sure, you can sue your boss. It's a lengthy and expensive process, and then you're known as the guy who sues his boss whether you win or lose. Best of luck with that. So! Back to the game. Hmm. Where even were we, carbine killing the game before it went f2p? I dunno how it would even come about, unless the shareholder meetings informed people the sub levels were just rock bottom. | |} ---- ---- Carbine is part of NCSoft. NCSoft DOES have the final word. | |} ---- http://www.kdbdw.com/bbs/download/186242.pdf?attachmentId=186242 Analysts are already predicting Wildstar to be their lowest performing product by the end of 2014 following a ~40% drop in revenue next quarter. The numbers aren't looking pretty. Turns out terrible customer service and failure to address community concerns can kill off even the fundamentaly best of games. If Carbine does refuse to go F2P they won't be long for this world. | |} ---- Looking at the link, those numbers seem accurate enough. Shame too... WS had worlds of potential and promise... especially in a sci-fi MMO market that's rather lack-luster at best. Only downside is, with all the attempted sci-fi MMOs in the past that bombed out, it's put a nasty taboo on sci-fi MMOs... (the whole FallOut Online scam didn't help either) so now when people hear something is going to be sci-fi, their knee-jerk reaction is, "oh no, not another disappointment incoming", or "been there done that, don't they ever learn". Really hoping to see a mind-blowing sci-fi MMO to the scale of WoW or bigger/better sometime in my lifetime... but don't think I should go holding my breath on that one. I know on a lot of gaming sites whenever I suggest the hopes of a great sci-fi MMO, many will laugh/scoff and, as usual, proclaim that sword/shield/medieval/fantasy is where it's at... since WoW has become the pedestal of "only winning formula"... which can be seen by the hundreds, if not thousands (many f2p), of off-shoots to the game. | |} ---- ---- Well damn. I hope the devs are listening. | |} ---- Does this really surprise anyone? | |} ---- ---- ---- All depend on contract formulated between Studio and Publisher..... | |} ---- ---- That is true, however NC Soft has a history of doing this. They wouldn't sign the contract unless they can takeover when the developers are not bringing in the cash. NC Soft has always been about draining games for what they are worth if they turn out to be flops(Low population games). W* being unfriendly to pugs and the like, will not bode well when NC Soft comes a knocking. I don't want that to happen, but there is a high probability for it if Carbine doesn't step up their game and make the game more friendly to pugs. | |} ---- There are a few exceptions to that rule, not many, but a couple off the top of my head are DCUO and Star Trek Online... they increased in the amount of content added after going f2p. B) | |} ---- Heh, I went back to dcuo recently since the adventure hotfix. Put my 2 hours to a better game XD. Shoot I barely log into W* anymore, kinda sad. | |} ---- ---- Damn, that's disheartening. I really hope that streamlining loot progression and fixing the awful awful itemization will do -something- at least. I don't see many complaints about the difficulty as much as how pointless the item progression system feels. I personally don't care as much about loot because I see how much gear really factors into the whole picture, but I also understand why people play MMOs these days. Loot progression. The thing I'm worried about is that I don't even think fixing itemization and gear progression will even do much in the long run. Say Carbine fixes all that has been mentioned, people see a clear gear progression path, they clean up some of the inane parts of the attunement and do some class balancing, what happens when people get back to the "hard parts" of the game. Everyone flurries to fix their gear so they can finally do dungeons, or feel motivated to do dungeons but still feel roadblocked by silver. What then? I hate to sound like the slippery slope fallacy but where is a reasonable sweet spot for a large chunk of the player base? I'm not going to quit this game because it's something I've been wanting for a long time and lots of these issues don't bother me as much. However, I'm not going to be a blind fanboi about this game either. I still want people to play it and I want them to experience the difficult stuff because it really is fun, there's just some growing pains that people feel isn't worth their money. Maybe they'll be back when shit is fixed up and a little more presentable. Who knows. TL;DR Numbers tell the truth. Carbine needs to get in gear and make the game more reasonable to larger chunks of players. Keep making hard shit to kill, just don't block people from trying it. | |} ---- Never tried STO but I did play DCUO for a few months when it launched. I've heard a few times that a load more content has been added since, I really should check it out again one day. | |} ---- Can you provide a link to an article with the analysts' predictions? I'm curious as to whether analysts are "predicting WildStar to be their lowest performing product" or you are comparing the 3-quarter predicted earnings of a Western game marketed in the West to the 4-quarter predicted earnings of Korean games marketed in the West as well as all over Asia, and putting your own spin on it. | |} ---- Yes, I'm sure Ncsoft will happily close down a game after investing thousands of dollars into it because it failed to match Carbine's vision. | |} ---- Ya they would never shut down a game..not what they are known for. Getting late maybe i'll go play City of Heroes. | |} ---- ---- CoH went on for years and have been F2P for quite some time before it was shut down. At that time it was still making some money but not much compared to other titles under Ncsoft's care. Unlike with Aion, they couldn't even sell the license. So it got axed. The company doesn't close games because the shareholders get bored during meetings and do a drunken game of eeny meeny miny moe to select their next victim. CoH had its time and produced more than enough profit for them to not think twice about killing it after the cash teat has gone dry. I'm disappointed about it too as it was a brilliant game but companies are out for profit and if the game had been as profitable as Lineage or GuildWars it wouldn't have disappeared. If WildStar fails as a P2P title then you can bet Ncsoft will make it F2P and milk it as long as possible to fund their next rising star. | |} ---- In two different areas too (Academy Corner and Arborian Gardens). | |} ---- | |} ---- | |} ---- What you forget that CoH was very profitable for a long time. It came out at a time when the MMORPG genre as we know it was in its infancy. Its main competitors were EverQuest with its legendary grindiness and WoW that launched at around the same time and was riddled with bugs and server crashes and terrible design decisions for the entirety of the first year. The F2P model was also less widespread so people expected to pay a recurring fee for their entertainment. It was relatively easy for CoH to become so popular in the beginning and gather a lot of initial subscribers. WildStar is a seal pup that has been released into an ocean of other seals and a couple of orcas. The devs have to work much harder for the game to survive and grow into adulthood instead of getting their source of food (players) nabbed here and there by the more mature seals or devoured in large numbers by the orcas. With how expensive the development must have been (it has been worked on for nine years after all) and with how expensive the upkeep is, this game can't operate with a tiny playerbase. It's not a mobile app with a twenty dollar patch budget that will do well even if only a hundred people play it. CoH wasn't short lived after the F2P transition because it went F2P. It was short lived because it couldn't keep up the pace with the industry. Updates became less and less frequent, older players were bored to tears as there was no sense of progression outside of leveling their umpteenth alt and the population was dwindling as more and more competitors appeared and lured away people, including some that were specifically made to appeal to fans of superheroes/villains and the somewhat zany world of comics. If CoH would have came out today it would be in the same unfortunate predicament as WildStar is now. | |} ---- Bullshit. NCsoft didnt make any effort to sell the license. Quite a few bids came in even from the devs trying to save their baby. NCsoft's official response was to not *cupcake*ing reply to them at all them suddenly declare 'well, nobody wants to buy it" weeks later and hope nobody noticed they were full of shit. NCsoft never sells the licenses to games they own. They just sit on the license forever to make sure nobody else can ever profit from it. if wildstar closed tommorow, NCsoft would just sit on the damned license to make sure nobody cou;ld ever profit from it if they couldnt. | |} ---- ---- should be. Maybe. Depends on if they have any solution for 1800's farming the shit out of rated and unrated BGs for laughs | |} ---- ---- Yes. The same devs that had to delay patch after patch because of monetary troubles. Do you really think they had the dough to buy out the license? The bids were high but not high enough. Do you really think they would have been able to maintain the game without Ncsoft backing them? The game getting slowly run to the ground would have reflected very poorly on Ncsoft as they are the ones who sold it off into unprepared hands. Just look at the Aion debate. The EU license got pawned off to Gameforge and they turned the game into a shadow of what it once was and what the US version is. A shut down would have been less disgusting. Transferring not just a license but employees between companies isn't just a matter of signing a contract and shaking hands on it. It's a slow and expensive process. Ncsoft didn't deem CoH worthy of further spending. Maybe it was the wrong decision. Maybe not. I certainly miss it but let's not act like Ncsoft executives are moustache twirling cartoon villains who spend company time and money on axing games for "teh lulz" or refuse to sell licenses just to *cupcake* off players. I do believe both Ncsoft and Paragon mishandled CoH shortly before and especially after the F2P transition but what's done is done. A license is a valuable thing to have, by the way. You would have to be crazy to sell them off all willy-nilly. | |} ---- ---- City of Heroes was out for 8 years before NCSoft deemed it unprofitable. WS is into its second month. Panic much? As to the OP, yes there are bugs. It's a new system with many ambitious goals that have not always been implemented in the best way and still need tweaking. But I have to say that there is not a single bug in this game, at least for me, that ruins my overall gaming experience. This game is fantastic. | |} ---- YEP! | |} ---- Don't worry about the OP it was kind of a trick post he already has an opinion on the topic. And panic? Naw not really at this point if the place burns to the ground i'll be the one with the fiddle enjoying the flames. Let everyone fight it out here lol i'll be doing hover-board jumps off of the highest peak I can find and enjoying the game until the lights go out. After all if you spend all your time fighting about the game you may never get to enjoy it. Later days. | |} ---- Depends... at times yeah, can be slow and expensive... not like Aion was the first time that's been done though. Kind of like when Gamersfirst took over Fallen Earth and APB. Or when PWI took on Star Trek Online and Champions Online. Seems to be odd transitions of either a game goes f2p and run by the same devs/publishers, or gets handed off to pre-established f2p companies (some better than others) and carry on that way. Would have been nice to see CoH handed off... could still imagine playing it from time to time, or heck even as a Facebook game wouldn't be so bad. Not saying WS is going to be shutdown tomorrow, but a HUGE difference is, CoH came out to a massively huge welcoming crowd with large numbers... since it was the first MMORPG superhero game of its time (that I'm aware of at least) -- also keeping profitable and successful for several years before the down-slump... in fact, if memory serves correct, it only went f2p once it stopped generating more of a profit than a loss, also the reason it was axed. So the huge difference is, it took CoH *years* before it started spiraling into a down-slump, where as with WS, it's already hitting that downhill slope and skiing quickly down the other side. B) | |} ---- 8 years when people were patient. Times have changed, when a game like WS has a major decrease in playerbase because Carbine can't get their crap together, you bet NC Soft is going to step in. They know how the market is, and if the Devs dont get on the big issues fast, this game is doomed to be killed like CoH. | |} ---- How is that possible? There are like a billion things to do.. | |} ---- Did you just hit 50 recently? | |} ---- Does it matter? I think the endgame in Wildstar is pretty extensive, there's much more to do than in any other MMO I have played. | |} ---- ---- ---- By ' extensive' you were referring to the amount of grind involved, yes? Wildstar has exactly the same things to do at endgame as many other MMOs of the same genre. 5-man instances. Raids. Unbalanced PVP. Daily quests. Crafting. Oh, and grind. LOTS of grind. The only real difference is the telegraphs, and even that's not all that different from games like TERA and Neverwinter. Really the only reason to play Wildstar over another game is if you're absolutely enamored with the style. And that's one thing the game has in spades. | |} ---- You just want epics thrown in your face without doing anything? It's no more of a grind than any other game. If you play BF4, don't you need to 'grind' to get better stuff? | |} ---- Weren't dailies the reason people quit WoW in droves in Mists of Pandaria? | |} ---- ---- But they listened and changed the way rep from dailies worked in the 1st patch. No, most people left in MoP because of CRZ. | |} ---- Not the only reason. CREDD is another reason. All things being equal with another MMO, WS wins because of CREDD. | |} ---- ---- Which I don't understand that mentality, that can ruin a game and then having all those nice things won't really matter when the game is dead. | |} ---- What do you mean 'many'? The only MMO with any mentionable endgame content that comes to mind is WoW. The MMO's that I have played had almost no endgame content at all. | |} ---- No, I want the gameplay to stand on its own, and be fun on it's own merit rather than having it's lifespan artificially extended by uninspired treadmill mechanics designed with the sole purpose of slowing down a player's progress. Just because it exists in other games doesn't mean it's any more acceptable here in Wildstar. Even WOW has admitted how bad it is, and has moved away from that style of content. I want the challenge and the fun to be in the difficulty of the dungeons and raids, not in overcoming the laborious and tedious process required to get there! | |} ---- Yea but that grind is fun and hardly seems like a grind. | |} ---- Hmm. The MMO's that I've played, and enjoyed, all had "endgame". | |} ---- Forgot about Rift. Rift has pretty good endgame. I'm talking the kind of endgame that will make you play for years. And as I understand it, Carbine plans to add new content very regularly. Wildstar will be the most popular MMORPG since WoW, you mark my words :-D | |} ---- WoW hasn't moved away from it. There's still the Daily CD on crafting, still the weekly Valor Cap, still the Legendary Quest chain. Still a lot of gating in WoW. | |} ---- Well I played SWG for years. Most of the time, the only thing I did for "endgame" was pvp... for years lol. | |} ---- I repeat: "Just because it exists in other games doesn't mean it's any more acceptable here in Wildstar." I also said WOW 'moved away from' it, not that they've eliminated it entirely. | |} ---- ---- http://a.pomf.se/kchdne.png Because everyone needs to be reminded of the incredible stuff they said when they were very young. SWG had endgame that could be player-driven, and even just interacting with others and buffing people in the cantina/main cities was a way to pass the days. | |} ---- ---- Jesus *cupcake*ing Christ this so much. SWG without Sony, take my money! | |} ---- Ahahahahahahahaha keep dreaming! F2P Sony style will milk the last cents from your bank account. (I'm interested in EQN too, but it's far in the future, and I've already seen worrying monetization schemes in the works in Landmark) | |} ---- ---- ---- ---- Sandbox MMO vs carrot on a stick MMO. We live in a new age of games/gamer types. | |} ---- That amazing feeling when you hunt down a vein of polymer for miles and find a gigantic deposit of it in a big, empty field, and drop 10 huge extractors right on it like a boss. And then running back and collecting it all and feeding it into your factory to make delicious packs of whatever schematic that you experimented on to make. Dayum shame. | |} ---- I remember reading something to that effect. Not sure if it was an interview, a forum post, or something else. But it was direct info from the developer and not some 3rd party hearsay. Pretty much says something about they rather close down the server then go F2P. No guarantee it won't go F2P though. It wasn't like they took a screenshot of a notarized contract that says "IP is terminated upon switching the subscription model to Free 2 Play model". But either way, F2P will bring in more members - but I won't be sticking around for that. No one knows the content of their contract. We don't know if NCSoft owns the IP or it was just a profit sharing. Most likely NCSoft owns it though. No idea how much control the developers have over the process. | |} ---- ---- Okay then. When the quarterly report comes out from NCSoft, I'm fairly certain that wildstar will be mentioned in some form, and the language used to describe the game in relation to NCSoft will tell us the rest. Until then, I'll agree that we don't know the specifics of the contract. | |} ---- Quarter report just shows the profits and revenue. It never contains contratorial information - that is usually confidential. Quarterly report is a public document. I think it is already out, someone posted the screenshot of it last week. Wildstar is projected to make more money than Lineage 2, but not as much as Lineage 1. If I read, and remembered, it correctly. | |} ---- Not surprising, really. As someone who has been fanatical about this game since it was announced, even I can't look at the game through rose colored glasses anymore. Hopefully Carbine will do what needs done - which is a rather lengthy list at this point. | |} ---- ---- ---- ---- No no, I didn't mean contractual information. I meant, the report would say either, "NCSoft's newest IP, wildstar, developed by carbine" or, "NCSoft's company carbine's new IP, wildstar" or something very similar. The way it's said would indicate which group legally owns the IP and thus would have final say over it. | |} ---- ---- Last I heard the dev team for autoassault couldnt revamp their game because NCsoft held the ip rights. | |} ---- Box sales, initial subs, and CREDD sales. If Wildstar doesn't come out gangbusters in the 2Q report, I'll honestly be shocked. Its the 3Q report where things will get interesting. | |} ---- Ouch. | |} ---- Oh, so in SWG, just hanging around "interacting" with people was considered satisfying content? That's called AFK. And now with Wildstar people complain that theres nothing to do, that hilarious. Maybe the genre is dying out, but its certainly not Wildstars fault. | |} ---- I know right? Who plays MMO's to be social? We all just play to get lewt and pwn nubs right? I mean it's an RPG, that's short for Really Pwning Guys right? | |} ---- Weird that WS is expected to get out performed by a factor of two in its box sale quarter by Lineage 1... Asian market or what here? | |} ---- TBH, I imagine most speculators are figuring WoD will eat 20 million subs and then lose them in a month, where they'll be recycled and fall as rainwater in California, but won't make it over the Rockies to fertilize the Great Plains. Speculators don't know much about games or MMORPGs. They figured WoW's subscription numbers would climb, that SWG would equal them and pay back their overhead bill, and that games like FFXI and EVE would be dead by now. The reality is that everyone expected a huge initial outburst, a reduction to a more stable core audience, and then some time where it will either slowly gain or lose accounts for the next year. The WoD release will probably hit everyone's sub numbers to some degree, probably Wildstar's less so because some people will have enough CREDD to fund their accounts and essentially make it F2P and thus worth keeping active even after it releases. FFXIV:ARR is probably bracing the gates for the same reason, expecting some kind of reduction when people go back for the new expansion. I'm not sure if they'll get as big a bounce this time as they traditionally did; they're not a bad game, but more and more people are just finding other games. It's a more competitive market than it was in 2004. Wildstar ought to be just fine. They've stated in interviews that they know there will be a "core" audience where Wildstar will be their "home" game and there will be a larger number of players who play occasionally during big content drops. They settled in to play the long game over years, not a couple months. Wildstar's biggest problem is its name recognition. Only a couple people who are interested in this sort of thing know Carbine's history to know their pedigree. Outside of that, they're a new development house and this is their first game, a brand-new original IP. They can't bank on people playing due to the brand, so they have to literally build their audience from the ground up. That's why CREDD was so important to their business strategy. They can pay for their initial costs and essentially fund themselves through that period of acquainting everyone with their franchise. I don't think they'll be having overall money issues for a while, at least. They probably bought themselves a good year or more of breathing room, if the abysmal price of CREDD proves anything. They figured it would debute at 40 plat, not 4. The market just got supplied with so much CREDD that it couldn't cope. I don't think CREDD's market flush is a lack of demand; anyone who can afford it with game currency is buying it in bulk now to save their IRL money (with the exception of those of us who don't feel like using our plat on something we can afford IRL). CREDD is money in the bank for NCSoft without sacrificing Wildstar's subscription model. It's why I don't think they're going to have to worry about money for a long while. They essentially have a bunch of "free" sub money. | |} ---- ---- It may be the Korean bias, but it's more likely that they're pricing it low because it's a subscription game. F2P isn't F2P, SWG has been more profitable than ever as a F2P game. Just the game quality suffers, that's all. It incentivizes selling extraneous stuff with the game as an advertisement for it, rather than incentivizing the company to just design a good game people want to play and earn everything in. So F2P games tend to suffer in gameplay. But make no mistake, if you don't mind using your game as a vehicle to coerce people to buy other stuff, you can make more money than you'd ever think possible. Just because it doesn't make the best games doesn't mean that model doesn't make a lot of money. That's why there aren't many subscription Facebook games. They don't have to be good; they have to make you want to buy things. | |} ---- Again, is there a link to a document where analysts have said that they're "predicting WildStar to be their lowest performing product" or is that just spin you're putting on the numbers in the forecast? Some things to consider: The end of year predicted data is given for 3 quarters of WildStar vs 4 quarters of all of NCSoft's other games. With one more quarter's data, WildStar's values would certainly be higher than Lineage II. WildStar is a Western game marketed in the West. All the other games are Korean games not only marketed in the West but all over Asia as well. The data doesn't indicate how WildStar is performing in its markets compared to other NCSoft games in the same markets. The Q2 figures for WildStar are based on units sold. Subscriptions aren't counted until Q3, since nobody was billed for subscriptions until July. The drop in revenue in Q4 may be, in part, attributed to the number of subscribers who purchased 6-month subscriptions in Q3 and not a prediction that WildStar will be losing players in Q4. That isn't to say that WildStar isn't performing as well as they predicted (and they've said as much in the report), or that there aren't things Carbine should do to attract/keep more people in the game, but the numbers don't indicate that analysts are predicting doom and gloom for Wildstar. | |} ---- It's okay, you didn't play the game. Entertainers and doctors would apply buffs to people, with queues forming that were 20 people long and up. Sitting and talking with people while you provided a service to them, so they could go out and adventure while you healed/buffed, was just one way to play the game. Nothing AFK about it. wildstar doesn't have ANYTHING like that. You don't need other classes for jack, as long as it fills the trinity you're good to go. SWG had way more variety than that, including completely non-combat roles. You're the one saying the genre is dying out. wildstar is just a bad execution of it. | |} ----